So, you want to be a First Lady? Part II

Did somebody say part 2?  Join Dr. Jaria and her guests, First Lady Michelle Pullen and First Lady Tiffany Hodge, as we talk about being the First Lady of a ministry.  Our guests give us insight into why some women desire this position, how younger First Ladies can connect with more seasoned women and much more! 

Chapters

• 3:10 DIG DEEP Conference Announcement
• 3:56 Guest Introductions
• 8:07 Why do you think young women want to be a First Lady?
• 15:49 What is the most challenging and most rewarding part of being a First Lady?
• 25:21 What is the difference between being a First Lady vs Co-Pastor?
• 35:48 How can younger First Ladies connect with more seasoned women in their congregations?
• 41:34 Was there a period of transition when your husband was elevated from Pastor to Bishop?
• 46:18 If you could spend a full day with any First Lady you admire, who would it be?
• 56:24 Conversation Takeaways & Contact Info

Transcript

2:06

Hey, good evening, everybody. Happy Wednesday. It's me, Dr. Daria C. Aldo, your host for this evening with Dig Deep Conversations with Christian Leaders. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm excited to see y'all. I always feel like it's been a long time, but it's really been since last month. But I feel like the clock change has maybe messed up with my whole sense of time for a little bit. I promise you, I woke up the other day I think it was like a Tuesday and I thought that it was already Saturday. So this time change is just completely throwing me off. But nevertheless, we are here tonight live and back for part two of our conversation. So you want to be a first lady. Now, listen, the first conversation you will have to watch and check out for yourself. We had some amazing first ladies come on and talk about the ups, the downs, the ins and outs, the great things, and then the not so great things about being a first lady. It was so good, in fact, that you all voted that this conversation should have a part two. So you asked for it, and here it is. I'm going to bring the conversation to you tonight with my special guest, who we will bring on in just a moment. I'm so, so very thankful that they said yes. and that you've tuned in. Now, if this is your first time watching, I need you to write in the comments, this is my first time. We wanna welcome you to the show, to the podcast listeners. If you are listening to the podcast or watching the replay, make sure that you use the hashtag replay. Thank you for tuning in. If you're listening to the podcast, the podcast does include all previous episodes of Conversations with Christian Leaders. We'll make sure that we get you all that information at the end. But if anything, if you are new here, again, I'm Dr. Jaria C. Aljo. I am the founder of, CEO of, whatever it is that you want to call it. I put together what's called Jaria Sine Ministries, where part of it is called Dig Deep. It's deeper in God, where we focus on being intentional about deepening our relationship with God. I've got devotionals. We've got a Facebook community that we have. We've got all different types of ways, Bible studies that we connect with one another, a monthly prayer call that's on Zoom for 15 minutes. All of these different ways for you to have a deeper connection and a deeper relationship with God. And I'm so, so very excited if you are connected to me on any social media platforms, if you follow along and get email updates. I have announced that we are again going to be doing the Dig Deep Conference Women of the Word in 2024. That's right. We're bringing the conference back. We had an incredible time last year. It was simply amazing. And so God has allowed us the opportunity to do that again in 2024. I do have the dates available for you all. So make sure that you stay tuned, stay connected with me. The dates are October 4th and October 5th. Mark them down in your calendars. You do not want to miss that. In fact, we have early bird registration happening right now as we speak. If you want to open up a different window, go to the website, geriascaljo.org. and get yourself registered, save your seat because space is incredibly limited. And I'm trying to tell y'all, we ended up having to stop people registering at the door last year. So this year we're going to do early bird registration, get the early bird registration rates while they are still available. And we will see you at the dig deep conference limit of the word. 2024 in October. Now, without further to do, I'm going to bring my guests on because it is 8.05. Y'all know that we usually like to keep this conversation to about an hour. And we've already started the conversation before the show has even begun. And I know it's going to be amazing and incredible. So I'm going to bring on our first ladies for this evening. We've got First Lady Tiffany Hodge and First Lady Michelle Pullen. Let's bring them to the stage. Let's give them a warm round of applause. Throw some hearts up there. Throw some likes up there. Hi, First Ladies. How are y'all? Hello. Very good. You? Good, good, good. I'm going to call y'all first. Wonderful. That works. That works. We were talking about that earlier when it comes to, especially I think people in my generation and younger, how we just abbreviate everything. And actually, First Lady Pullen, I think the first time I heard people refer to their First Lady as first was at your church. That's where I picked it up from. So thank you to the saints of God at Greater Glory Church of God in Christ for helping me to pick that up in my vernacular there. Truly, it was the young people. the younger generations decide to abbreviate. Why say First Lake? We just say, hey, First. It worked for me. It worked for them. And it made them feel like they had a connection with me because they gave me their own special title, First. Absolutely. I love it. Absolutely. So ladies, listen, we're going to jump into this conversation. Before we go into our questions for tonight, though, if you all would be so kind and just introduce yourselves to those who are watching. First Lady Haj, why don't we start with you? Just tell us a little bit about who you are. how long you've been serving as a first lady and maybe give us in one word, if you could describe what it means to you to be a first lady. Oh, those are good questions. All right. I'll go first. So I am first lady, Tiffany Hodge. I have been a first lady here in Norwalk, Connecticut at Miracle Temple Church of God in Christ for, I believe I'm going on three years now. So three years. And so I, The question was what it means to be a first lady. I would say in short to be a servant to your husband first and then the people, obviously God. But so God, your husband and then the church. So a servant. Love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you so much. And welcome to the show. And let's go to my, by the way, Tiffany is my sis. Love her. Met her and my brother three years ago. And absolutely love, love, love them. Love fellowshipping with the saints at Miracle Temple. We'll definitely have to visit y'all again soon. And I have to show honor and deference to the first lady of my jurisdiction. So y'all, be on your best behavior. This is the first lady of my jurisdiction on tonight. I'm honored to have her. Yes. I'm so honored to have her on here, because I thought she would be the absolute, both of them would be the absolute perfect guests. So First Lady Pullen, if you will please just introduce yourself, how long you've been a First Lady, and if you could give one word to describe what being a First Lady means to you. Okay, I'm Michelle Pullen, First Lady Michelle Pullen, and I've been a First Lady for approximately 40 plus years. And right now, First Lady over two churches, Greater Glory in Hartford and New Bethel in Waterbury. And if I had to use one word, it would be sacrificial. Good. Love that. And we're going to get into all of that. Like I said, we were having some conversation earlier and we talked about you all shared how it is a selfless position. You are constantly giving and it wasn't in a complaining manner, but certainly understanding that this position is very much a sacrifice. And this is how we're gonna lead into my very first question for the night, because we talked about really the premise behind sort of the topic of the show was me knowing and hearing young women who are unmarried saying that, you know, I want to marry a pastor. I want to date a pastor. I want to be a first lady and really desiring to be a first lady and almost idolizing being a first lady. And so my question for you all is, why do you think young women want to be a first lady? Like, what is the draw for that? So first lady, I'm going to start with you. I thought she was going to start with First Lady Hodge because she's younger. But if you ask me, I think that it comes, when they say that to me, it comes from a place of immaturity because they're looking at the external of what they see, that it looks glamorous, you get to dress up, everybody's always, you know, escorting you or, you know, they're making sure you have a seat and all that looks so nice and fluffy, but they're not seeing what goes on behind the scenes. And so unless they actually can, if they only knew, that I think they would think twice about it. And so I ask people when young ladies say to me, oh, I want to be a pastor's wife. I want to be a pastor's wife. I say, why? Tell me why. Tell me. You have to tell me why you want that. And if you could tell me that that makes sense to me, that you would put on a task of the role of servant, selfless sacrificing on a daily basis, that you're signing up for that voluntarily, then convince me. Right, right, right. Because the average person doesn't go into it saying, I want to be a first lady. It's a mantle that kind of, you know, the Lord kind of hand picks and it's placed on you. And then you grow into it. Yes. That's from my perspective. Yeah, I would agree. First, I would definitely agree with you as well. I think they see the glitz and the glam. You know, for me, I'm young. So I am very active. Even when I was in Minnesota, not as a first lady, I was serving in ministry. I was very independent. And that's how I am as well. You can ask anyone at Miracle Temple, where's First Lady? Oh, she's taking video or, you know, she's doing something or she could sit in the back row and still be sweeping or doing something. I think they see the glitz and the glam and the necklaces and the beauty of it and people applauding you. But people really have no idea the things that you have to go through. Wow. As a first lady, there are very hard days, very hard nights, very hard weeks, and you still have to serve the people regardless of how you feel. Not only that, but you still have to be a wife. And so being a first lady and being a wife are two totally different things. You're still serving outside of yourself. So yeah, the glitz and the glam, it's cute. We take cute pictures on Facebook, on social media. All of that stuff, all the hearts, 100 likes, whatever. But I'm telling you, I would ask the same question. Why exactly do you want to be a first lady? What's your intention behind it? And are you ready? You know, have you been in ministry before? How do you handle people when they say things about you and you can't reply? Mm hmm. whether they're in front of your face or not, how do you truly handle that? So first I would, I would say the exact same thing. My question would be why. And if you have that mantle as a young girl, I knew I was going to be a first lady. My testimony is not like everyone else's. I was saved at five. And from there I was in church. God showed me what my future was going to be. But he never said it was going to be easy. It never said I was just going to have, I'm going to have a husband and a pastor. I won't go through anything, but let me tell you something before you really want to be a first lady, you should pray about it and ask yourself maybe 10 or 20 more times. You know, why? Why you want to be a first lady? The intentions behind it? Because I'm telling you, serving is selfless and it will break you down to your knees. And see, the other part I wanted to add, my experience is a little bit different. because I never had any, I had, I knew nothing about first lady. I was raised Catholic. So the whole idea of this whole first lady thing was foreign to me. My husband was always church of God in Christ. And, um, you know, we were just going to get married, live our life. Wonderful. And, you know, he always said that he was going to, you know, work in church, but I never saw the other part coming. I was, you know, that was a bit much. So it was an adjustment. Um, And then you find out that being a first lady, you're a first lady, you're a mother, you work a job. You know, there's no maid in the house. There's no cook. You're doing all those. You're the taxi driver. You're the hospital goer. You're all those things with a smile. Yes, ma'am. And the vacations that get interrupted, the meal you cooked, but somebody called and now he can't eat it and you got to reheat it and you try to make it look nice so it don't look like mess. Come on, let's be honest. You're talking heavy. You're talking heavy. Yes, ma'am. And I really, did they have to call now? I just put the plate on the table. And it's not the same when you reheat it. No, it's not. And you try to do it with a smile. And you say, OK. And then you sit there and you wait and you eat alone. Yeah. Yep. Or the vacation you planned, but somebody dies. And in your mind, you want to say, can't you put them on ice till we get back? Yeah. Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Oh God. Oh, this is so good already. I can only be me and keep it real because we think those things, but we can't say them. Yeah. It's true. And just like you said, you have to be selfless. So that it's a happy question. It's a happy question. Are you willing to lay down your life for the people that in order to support your husband in the call that God has given him. Because at the end of the day, it's the calling of your husband. You know, God called your husband and he called you to serve him. So you have to really assess the situation. And if you are one of those women that are clingy, that just got to be around your man 24 seven and all that stuff, this is not the job. This is not the job for you. You'll be miserable. You'll be miserable. You'll be because he's serving people. That's where his heart is. He's the shepherd. So, you know, I agree with you a hundred percent. Right, right, right. Wow. Yeah. No, we're going there y'all. I told y'all I got the right ones on tonight, tonight, tonight. I got the right ones on. So that, um, cause you all are sharing a lot of really great nuggets right now. Uh, so the question was, you know, what do you, what do you say to women that say, you know, they desire to be a first lady and it's really about understanding the why and the intention behind it and understanding that it's a mantle. It is essentially a calling, right? You have to be chosen for this position. And I love that you said, you know, you're serving your husband as he serves God's people. And that can sometimes be a challenge because there can be conflicting priorities at times. And so navigating that and learning how to navigate that and keeping a household, but then also keeping a church and the people of the church and that sort of thing. All of that feels very challenging, which brings me to my next question is what is the most challenging and then the most rewarding part of being a first lady? So first lady, how to start with you? So I would say for me, and I see some of my Miracle Temple family. Hi, guys. So the most challenging thing for me, I think, is watching my husband grow through ministry. I think growth is twofold. It can be seen as a negative thing and it can be seen as a positive thing. But I get to watch him grow. I get to watch him go through multiple things together. within the church. You know, I get to hear the back end of a lot of things. You know, I get to hear what people are saying and how people disagree, how they don't want to do something or how, you know, they're not happy with the decisions that are being made. That affects your pastor. Whether you believe it or not, whether you agree or not, it affects him. And so I, as a wife, as he's my best friend, I don't want anyone going against my husband, you know, because I know that his heart is so pure and he wants to see the church grow. He wants to see the church develop. He wants to see the church move forward. But watching him through that growth process is absolutely immaculate. It's absolutely amazing because it's building some type of strength in him where, okay, I went through that. Let's move on to the next thing. I mean, it's just like a water off a duck's back. It just rolls off. But I would say the most rewarding part is serving him and serving the people. As a little girl, I love to be in church. I mean, I didn't want to go to prom. I didn't want to go to homecoming. I wanted to go to church. So that's all I knew serving. So now that I have a church that I'm able to serve, it just, it excites me. I often put myself to the back burner and say, I don't need to go on vacation. I got to do this for the church, or I got to make this video for the church, or I have to do this. That it's just rewarding serving people, um, It's probably my favorite thing about being a first lady. I don't care about anybody carrying my bags. I don't care too much for recognition or anything like that. I solely care about serving God's people and making sure the vision that my pastor has comes forth. Yeah, I love that. You know, I think. It can be just, and I'm thinking of just watching, you know, your friends or people that you love go through challenging times or people coming up against them and to know that you have to be there for them for that, but also maintaining, like you can't then not start speaking to people that you know are talking bad about your husband or your wife. You can't do that, you know? Only because you still have a standard to hold up. And, you know, the scripture says do unto others as you want them to do unto you. So you really have to apply scripture as a first lady. I'm young as well. So, you know, I can be really sharp and really quick. So I always have to tone down and come back to reality and say, I still love them anyway. And it's not them, but it's the spirit that we're going against. And we're going to continue in ministry and love and in harmony because it's about God at the end of the day. So absolutely, you're 100% right. Right. Absolutely. And I think that's probably one of the things that I think I would really struggle with is that just the fact that I have to now continue to maintain those relationships, even though I know you've you've outwardly disrespected my husband, you talked bad about him, you, you know, gone around and you're trying to be divisive and that sort of thing. And, and I feel like that would be incredibly challenging for me if I were in those shoes. I appreciate you sharing that that is the most challenging, but also the most rewarding part of you know, of service, right? Like you have the heart of a servant. You said that earlier, that was your one word to describe what it means to be a first lady to you was to serve. And so it's absolutely refreshing to hear that you love serving. And I think that's how I arrived at having the two of you on tonight is because I have watched and observed you all serving, you know, first lady Pullman, very much like there's a first lady Hodge. She is the person that if we're feeding people after church, I have a plate for you first. And she is running around making sure everybody else has got a plate to the point where she hasn't even eaten. Right. And she is making sure that everybody else is taken care of because she has the heart to serve God's people. And I can only imagine what that must be like serving people that, you know, Maybe you're sometimes not so nice to the people that you love, the man that you love, but still serving them and doing it with a glad heart. So thank you so much for sharing that. First Lady Michelle, let's go to you. What is the most challenging and then the most rewarding part of being a first lady? I think I think sometimes it is keeping a separation between home and church. because you know pastoring is what they do 24 7 and they're always working so to speak and so trying to find that place of that time where you there's a separation where this is just family time right now or this is we're just okay right now we're not gonna talk about church yep we're not gonna talk about any of that right now we're just gonna we I don't care if we're watching reruns of something but we're not talking about church so trying to get carve out that time I tell you, I'm the horse with the, but again, carving out that time to have that special time when it's, even if it's something simple where you're not focusing on ministry, ministry, ministry, ministry, because if you're, if you're not careful, you will get lost in the shuffle of that. Yes. You really will get lost in the shuffle of that. And so you have to try to find that that that that balance. That's good. But it's a challenge because that phone does ring all the time and people want the pastor when they want him. It doesn't matter what he's doing or what time of day it is. Their need is their need. And, you know, they want and again, they want to talk to the pastor. And so, again, your job after that is to bring him back to that place of comfort where you had whatever was going on and try to resume because, again, he always is going to need that place where he can decompress. he's going to need that and he's going to have to be sometimes you've got to be that sounding board where you hear and not hear you don't absorb it you repel it but he needs to vent or whatever so you have to be that person and not internalize it and like Sister Hodge said not look at these people cross-eyed or your fist clenched when you see them but smile graciously and love on them anyway. So it is a challenge. But for me, the most rewarding part of it all is that I get to do a lot of interaction with a lot of the ladies at the church and to watch them grow and to watch them mature and just push and pull them into their next level or to step out there and take those challenges and trust God, that's the rewarding part for me is just to see them mature and to just blossom and accept ministry and get comfortable in their own skin. And because if they can get that at church, they can face it other places. Yes, absolutely. That development piece, right? So that feels like that nurturing piece for you where I'm serving the people, but I'm also helping them to develop in their own walk with God and how they can take that into their professional lives and their personal lives and just kind of watching them blossom. I absolutely love that. Thank you both for sharing that. I think, you know, one of the things that my, one of my former first ladies, first lady Julia Hunt, who was married to Bishop Hunt, I think one time she was talking about how people will call in the middle of the night and you know, I have a cough, Pastor, can you please pray for me? And she said, you know, sometimes I just want to tell them, you can pray for yourself. pray for you yeah and I think you know when she said that I started to think like oh my goodness like I never really put two two together I think at the time my father was an elder in the church did not have his own church um and so my mother was not a first lady and so I just really truly didn't fully understand all of the behind the scenes and and how folks will kind of pull on you in that manner. So I appreciate y'all sharing about the balance and finding that balance and making sure that you're the pastor and also the husband's peace, right? Like he wants to come home to peace and be able to say, take off his both hats and just kind of let his hair down and just be that secret keeper. So I appreciate y'all sharing that. Let's go to our next question here. Now, this is one that I'm not going to put nobody out there, but this is one that was said that if we don't ask this question, we might be a little bit sad, a little bit upset. So I'm going to go right to this question. This is going to be the next question, right? So we make sure that we get this question out there on the table. So the question is, in your opinion, and First Lady Poland, I'm going to start with you. In your opinion, what is the difference between being a First Lady and co-pastor? There is a significant difference because the pastor's role is very biblical. His job is to prepare you for heaven. And if you are co-pastor, then your role is the same. So the weight you have on you is greater because you're going to be held accountable for the teaching those people get, what they're being fed and how they're nurtured. That is your job to pastor them, to prepare them for heaven. The first lady, that's not your job. Your job is to help the pastor, try to keep the ladies and everybody in the church, you know, comfortable. Give them an ear if you want. They want somebody to talk to. But it ain't my job to prepare you for heaven. I don't have that weight and I don't want it. Don't have it. Don't want it. The co-pastoring and pastoring is a big responsibility. And you're going to be held accountable for what those sheep eat, for what they know and what they don't know. And no, there is a big, big difference. And the mantle has been given to him. Yes. That's why the mantle was given to Adam. That's why he got in trouble and not Eve. Right. Okay. So my job is to be the cheerleader for the pastor, to be that place where he can say, can you handle this for me? Or whatever the case may be, the sounding board, to be a listening, a help, a help me. That's my job. Right, right, right. Very good. In a nutshell. Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, for me, the question, as we were talking about it earlier, and so for me, the question came from a place of, you know, I know women that have decided that they want to be co-pastors or, you know, some are called like elect ladies or, you know, you have first ladies. And just, I think, trying to understand, is there a difference? Is it just a matter of title? Is there sort of any type of difference with that? So I appreciate the explanation there in that. Essentially, the responsibility that you have, the mantle that you have, the expectation that comes with those certain titles. First Lady Hobbs, what's your take on this question? What is the difference between a First Lady and a co-pastor? I would agree with First Lady as well. I think it's your responsibility, your roles. For example, people at my church, they know that I'm very outspoken. If I have ideas or I have input, my husband allows me Get it? He allows me to give my input. It doesn't mean that what I say is actually going to be implemented. Right. Sometimes some people can get that mixed up because usually if I if I'm too out of whack, my husband be like, that's enough. All right, we're done. Cut it off. Be quiet. He's quick. He'll be quick to tell me. But at the end of the day, I know my place and my place to serve him. He allows me to give input, give my ideas, all of that stuff. But he makes the decision at the end of the day. I don't. And just like First Lady said, why would, and again, some people feel that they're called, again, no shade, no anything like that. But for me personally, I would not want that responsibility on my shoulders day in and day out. And as a first lady, you see the background of everything. From the time he leaves the pulpit to the time he lays down, he is still talking about the members of the church. What can I do? How can I do better? Was that sermon good? I don't think anybody understood that. Oh my goodness, so-and-so is in the hospital. I need to go see them. There's not even off switch for a pastor. They don't have off switches. It is so... Nerve wracking sometimes because at night I can tell you we are laying in the bed until five o'clock in the morning. But Pastor Hodge has to get up and go to work at 630. I have an hour away with all that on his mind. And I'm on the phone with him on the way to work as he talks about the people at the church. I don't think people really know how heavy the calling of a pastor is. actually is. It is so heavy. So for me, it's the decision-making. My husband allows me a voice in the church, but he doesn't allow me to make decisions because that's not my, my place. I don't want my place. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for hearing me out. Whether you take my, my input or not, it's okay. You allowed me to talk, but I do not. Yeah. at any point, want to be a co-pastor. And it's not to say that I don't love the people at my church. It's not to throw shade, but I'm talking about the burden that you have and that carry day in and day out. I mean, it, it will change your life. I was telling the ladies backstage ministry will knock you to your knees. And if I'm not to my knees, just seeing what my husband is going through, I can't imagine walking in his shoes day in and day out. I just, It blows my mind. And a lot of people fail to realize that the pastor works a job too, a secular job. Secular job. So it's like he's got two full-time jobs. Three. He has to deal with me too. Exactly. And people forget that. They forget that part, that the average pastor is pastoring and working a full-time job and being a husband, being a father, juggling all those things. But again, because he's a man, they think that he's not supposed to get overwhelmed. He's supposed to be able to handle it all. And it's That's why you have pastors who leave ministries because it is just too much. And the expectation that people put on the pastor of what he's supposed to be able to do, they don't think about the fact that he is still human. He's not divine. Absolutely. And, you know, for me, I'm going to give you how I train myself when people I know have said things about the pastor that aren't so kind or that, you know, I get that feeling. I just say, you know what? No big deal. If Jesus could eat with Judas, I can deal with these people. Yeah. Let me put that down real quick. If Jesus... Nothing was going on. You got to help me do it. You got to help me do it. Because you know the heart. of your husband, you know, the heart and it is not, I mean, my husband, he is just a teddy bear to me. Honestly, he is just the sweetest thing. And so when someone takes something that he says out of context or tries to manipulate or try to get over, he's very watchful. So he'll, he'll, you know, he'll watch and he'll see things. You know, but once it gets to that point, he'll be like, nope, we're knocking it off. We're done. You know, but just to see people try to abuse that when God has given him clear direction. I mean, mind you, why go against somebody that has the direction and the guidance for your life? Right. They are the shepherds over your soul. Right. Why would you abuse that? Right. But see, they fail to realize that sometimes we are the buffer between that because there are times when he can be very, very upset and it's our job to talk him off the ledge. Right. To bring him down and say, well, let's think about this. Let him be upset because he's human, but talk him off the ledge, bring him down. And see, that's wisdom because you know how you have sometimes those friends and those moments where you like, I don't want somebody to talk me down. I want somebody to meet me right where I'm at and hype me up. And so that's wisdom. Ladies, if you are a first lady, if you are married to an elder who has the calling of pastorship on his life, I hope you are catching these nuggets. Don't talk them up. Talk them down. Talk them back from the ledge. That's why I'm called to be what I'm called to be. Because I'm going to talk you up. Yup, they wrong. Go ahead and get them. Get them. Say no. No, you just say it. Because think about it. Now remember, when David was very, very upset, Abigail was the one who talked him off the ledge because he was going to kill everybody. And she said, wait a minute, wait a minute now. You don't want innocent blood on your hands because you have a calling on your life. She talked him down. And so again, it caused him to do something different. And wives, first ladies are often, if she's mature, she will allow him to vent And validate how he feels. Don't say it ain't enough. Validate how he feels. But then talk him down. Say, well, consider so-and-so. Let him sleep on it. Yep. Read his body language. If he's buying you, talking him off the ledge, or if he wants to stay on the ledge for a little while. It's about the body language, First Lady. It's about the body language. Let him vent. Let him get it out. You have to. He needs to. He's not saying he's going to do anything. He just has to get it out. Because it's the burden on his heart, you know, and what comes from the heart, it's the matters of the heart, you know. And so you have to allow him to get it out without thinking anything different. And then a day or two, God will deal with him and give him the direction to, you know, to lead him and to guide him on whatever the situation is. But it's definitely growth. It's definitely growth. Yeah. And so I think that's another great segue into the next question that I have specifically for First Lady Hodge. You are, as you mentioned earlier, a younger First Lady, younger both in age and also three years into this, which it sounds like three years could feel like a lot in this position, a long time. 30, 40. Yeah, it feels long. Right. Right. So in being a younger First Lady, though, how can other young First Ladies connect with women who are more seasoned in their congregation? And just to give a bit of context for those that are watching and not familiar, Pastor and First Lady Hodge did not start their ministry. And that's no shade to those who do, but it is very different starting your ministry versus coming in with an already established ministry. And so I'm wondering what nuggets can you give to other younger first ladies who are trying to connect with the women in their ministry who are a little bit more seasoned, a little bit older? How can they make that connection? Yeah, I think I am probably a master at it at this point. Growing up in church, I can only relate to that is I was the young person that was always around the older saints because they had wisdom and I desired wisdom. I knew what the young life was about and I wasn't interested in it. So I would, as a young girl, go and tie their shoes, help them put their jackets on give them a hug. They would reward me with a peppermint, just building that relationship. And so now as a first lady, it's communication, simple. Go to that older member, a mother that's in the church, sit down with them, have a conversation. How are you doing today? Call them during the week, checking in on them. It doesn't take much. If you're actually called to the ministry, it does not take a lot to connect with people. It just allows you, the calling allows you to ease into every gap that needs to be filled. Now, that does not mean I don't have young women that are my age or maybe a little bit older who may not be as open. Mm-hmm. may not be as open to accepting me as their first lady yet. But that doesn't mean I stop the communication. That does not mean that I treat them differently. You have to continue to love and to continue to communicate. Just like at your job, you may have a boss that you're under who you just cannot stand. You still have to do your job. It just doesn't stop because one person does not like you or does not agree with you or anything like that. So I would just say communicate with them, spend time with them, conversate with them. If it was your mother, you know, it's no different. So communication is very important. And even those women that may be my age or a little bit older and say, I have more experience than you or you're young enough to be my child. I hear that a lot. Yes. To be my daughter. No, I'm not. I have one mother. I have one father. And I have one husband. That's it. So you really also have to watch people too. And I know this is kind of part two of this. You have to watch people because people want you to be their daughter. They want to have a say so over what you do. They want to be able to claim you. But I don't do that. And people are well aware. First Lady Hodge, call me First Lady Hodge. That is it. I am your pastor's wife. I'm serving the pastor. But whatever else you need for me, I promise to be there and to do it to the best of my ability. So just communicate with the older members. Have dinners. Have fellowship dinners on the weekends. Go out. Have a cup of coffee. Go shopping together. Buy them a gift. Write them a card. Write them a letter. Check in to see if you know someone is sick in their family. I'm just calling to pray. How is this family member doing? It doesn't take much. And the more that you do it, the more people will respect you because they want to know my pastor cares, but does my first lady care? So as long as you're balanced in that area, it took a lot for me to grow because I'm such an introvert. And that may be, you know, I am an extroverted introvert when I'm around people. I love to go. When I'm at home, I'm at home. I completely shut down. So just communicate. Communicate. Build relationships. Do things together. That's how it should go. Communicate. Work on building relationships. I do think that is incredibly important. Even in my professional world and in some other circles, it's always the, you're young enough to be my daughter. I'm like, yep, but I'm your boss. And so I think for younger first ladies, I, again, appreciate you being on tonight because I feel like having to navigate that without... being snippy about it, you know, like it is, yes, I am that age. And also, like you said, I am also your pastor's wife. Um, and, and really hearing the wisdom and what you're saying, really just communicate with folks and see that it's not just your pastor that has a heart for the people, but it's also your first lady. You know, I have a heart for you as well. Um, first lady, Michelle, um, being that, as you said earlier, you have spent, I think it was 40 years Being a first lady, you have gone from being the first lady of a pastor to then now a first lady of a bishop. You know, we know Bishop Pullen. I don't know if he's watching. I do see that my pastor, Joel, was watching. So shout out to Pastor Joel, who's watching. My mommy is watching tonight. My favorite first lady ever, mommy. She's your biggest supporter. And I am her and I love her dearly. I also see some Dig Deep Squad members on here. Shout out to Katie on here. So when it comes to, though, that transition between your husband being a pastor to then being elevated to the office of bishop, was there a period, a transition period for you as well? Like, were there things that it like a whole new world of being a first lady? You've gone from pastor to bishop. It's all kind of the same. Yeah. I think once you get past his wife under your belt, everything else is just add-ons, I'll be honest. Your circle, you know, I think what happens is your circles get smaller and smaller. There are new faces you meet and new experiences, but it's basically the same in my situation. My husband went through every phase there is to go through in church from being a minister and elder, you know, a pastor administrative assistant. He worked in the national church. So he's all, and he's been, he was an auxiliary bishop before a jurisdictional bishop. So we've had all those increments. So you just, it was like walking up the steps, you know, you know, one, another step. So it wasn't that big and that significant. But one of the things I will say is that because I've been in it so long, you never stop learning. And like I was saying before, if I had to sit with another first lady, I would sit with someone who's is where I haven't been yet. And I say that because I find that, and I'm a realist because my husband's not gonna live forever, even mine. And I've watched pastor's wives or bishop's wives, when their husbands transition, they lose themselves. It's like they cease to exist. And so I've looked at a past, a bishop's wife, as a matter of fact, the general board bishop's wife, who when he passed, she kept going because she had a life of her own. She had a ministry, her identity changed. she was no longer the bishop's wife, but she was who she was. And that's significant. That's important. So if I had to spend time with somebody, it would be somebody like that, who's had that phase in their life where they've been all those things. They've been in the limelight as the bishop's wife, and now you're no longer that. And to watch them make that transition is amazing because there are some, when the husband passes, you don't see them anymore. Right. They fade out. It was like, because that's the only thing they identified with. But this particular woman, I mean, when her husband passed, she kept going. She stayed visible. She was out there. She had her own little business stuff going on. Sister Louise Patterson. she stayed visible she kept going she stayed sharp as a tack she didn't start looking down and beat down she was you know I mean I looked at her and I'm like now see that that's the way you got to do it you would find yourself I don't want if my husband goes before me I don't want to die because he died then they're gonna say well she didn't got sharp no no no no Oh, my God. No, but it's true. You've seen it. It's like they die because, you know, and so that's a phase where because I'm older. And again, I do have my own ministry and stuff that I'm involved in and my own identity, which is important when you've been in it as long as I have, because. that can't be the only thing you are. It just can't be. It can't be. And so firstly, that's wonderful. You have your own identity. Keep it. Grow you. So that as he's growing, you're not left behind. That you've got your own thing and your own self of who you are and self-worth. That's important. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. That's, you know, I... I appreciate... the sentiment of sharing, you know, this is what I'm looking forward to and not so much with I'm excited about, you know, that next phase of my life. But as you said, you're a realist and understand, OK, this is what I have to look forward to if that's the way things go. And really and truly working on who you are as a woman who you are in ministry as a woman outside of just being the pastor's wife, the bishop's wife. So having your own identity and forming that now, as opposed to, like you said, getting lost after things have changed. That's incredibly important. And you talked about, and I think that sort of answers the next question that I had, which was if you could spend a full day with any first lady that you admire, who would it be? And so I, I think, was that your answer, First Lady Louise Patterson? Yeah. Yeah. Although she's not here anymore. Right, right, right. Because I just watched her go through a very significant transition in her life. Right. And she didn't miss a beat. Right. And so I admired her for that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you you don't see it as often, I think. And it is important to know that, you know, and she still was respected and that sort of thing. But it did not change who she was, as you said. And, you know, First Lady Hodge, I know, again, we talked about this briefly in the back already. So I am going to go to you for this question, because I do I do think what you have to share is also important. So same question for you. Yeah. Um, so, um, I would say there's not a first lady at the moment that I admire. Um, I think that the reason being, um, is because I'm a new, a first lady lady. So being a first lady for three years, I've been focusing on my ministry. And so when I focus on my ministry, I don't have time to look at what others are doing. I make my ministry my own and the visions that my husband has, I make sure they come to pass. So it's not that I don't want to connect with other first ladies or that I'm being bougie or stuck up or anything like that. That's not me at all. I am just so focused on Miracle Temple, Church of God in Christ. What needs to be fixed from once we came in and how to move the church to the next level while we're here. I'm young, so I have energy. I can go. I have ideas. We have ideas. I have the energy. So I'm going to work while I'm young. Right. I'm going to make sure I can do all that I can do. And it doesn't mean that I'm not going to meet another first lady down the road that I can admire and glean from. But I did want to mention that a lot of times I'm careful, especially as a newer first lady, because everybody has an opinion. Everybody wants to tell you what to do and what not to do. Everyone wants to give you input. Don't do that. And it doesn't mean that it's bad input. It doesn't mean that it's negative or anything. But a lot of people have itching ears and they want to know what's going on in the church. And First Lady Michelle, they also want to know what's going on at home. And so you have to be careful as a First Lady going into that who you vent to because not everybody has your best interest. interest at heart. Not everybody wants to see the good. They want to know what's going on, what happened. How are you and your husband? Did you guys fall out? We're human. We're married people. We all have emotions. We all have feelings. We're going to have arguments. We're going to have blowouts, but I can guarantee you when I walk in church, you'll never know And we had an argument. No one is to ever know. You'll never know. You will never know. And when I'm singing praise and worship, you will never know. I'll give God glory. I'll give him the praise and the honor. But I'm being honest because a lot of first ladies, they may not say that. I know a lot of first ladies, they're about sisterhood and let's work together. But for me, I tread lightly. I move very slow at gaining friends, at, at taking in advice from people that I may not know. And there's first ladies that have reached out to me. And again, you know, once I feel ready to definitely let's go out for coffee, let's go to Starbucks, you know, let's, let's do something, but not everybody has their best interests. So I don't have a first lady right now that I admire, um, because I'm focused on my ministry, but, um, if it's the Lord's will, um, I would definitely be open to it. Um, but right now I, Miracle Temple is going full speed ahead. Um, and I'm focused on that right now. So, yeah. And I think that's important to note too, like you shared about being mindful of, you know, who's just trying to find that information about what's going on with Miracle Temple. Let's say they're not a member of Miracle Temple or just trying to find out information about what's going on between you and Pastor Hodge. And so being able to kind of discern like, you know, I'm not really going to go into full details or even much of anything at all. And I think in this time and in this season, where people are really appreciative and also looking for people to be transparent, I always tell people, you know, be transparent with wisdom. Being transparent doesn't mean that you have to share everything with everyone. You know, you certainly, because you don't know, like you said, the intentions behind people's motives for asking you questions, right? And so it's not that everyone has ill intentions, but not everyone has good intentions. Like, let's be honest, you know? I think there was there was something either I was at or listening to is actually I think it was our spring workers meeting. And one of the speakers got up and talked about how, you know, you be mindful of the women that are bringing a plate of food to the pastor and not also the first lady. And that has my aunt had told me that once before, too. You don't just bring something just for the pastor, not the first lady. Like, that's incredibly rude. um and I think you have to just be mindful of those things where some people went oh no they're trying to be nice to the pastor it's okay no no no you'd be mindful of that but you watch that person that's always what how I've been taught um again when someone said it as they were speaking last week um it just sort of triggered that in my memory like you never know the intentions behind somebody's heart the the gesture seem pure and might seem good and helpful and supportive. But what's that motive behind that? So I appreciate you sharing that, First Lady Hodge. First Lady, also create something where you have to be careful because they're your members. They're not your friends. And you keep a certain amount of distance because it just has to be that way. And you're just very mindful of who you share with because, again, when people are with you, they're with you. But when they're not, what they did know, they tell them. What they don't know, they tell. Yeah. And they put their spin on it. So, you know, she was the past. She was the first lady's best friend. So I know she knows what she's talking about. No, no. You know, you're laughing because, you know, it's true. It's true. That's why you you you have to always have that mindset. Well, everybody's on the same playing field. I treat everybody the same. If I hug this one, I'm going to hug that one. But nobody's getting any special treatment because I don't want to have it said that, you know, this one was close. So if Sister Hodge told it to you, you know, her and First Lady were tiny. So you can know that's true. And they're like, Sister Hodge is mad with me right now. So, you know, she can say anything she wants. Right. So you have to be careful. And you just, you just, you say, Lord, help me to love on everybody and not have any special favorites. They're so quick to say the pastor's wife is showing favorites. You know, she speaks to her all the time. She don't come and speak to me, but it's like, it's, and they have to realize you're one person. You can't get to everybody every Sunday. So I make it a point to try to get, not that our ministry isn't that big, but I make it a point to get to the new people every Sunday, not the old people, because those are the ones who are going to try to hem you up. They're going to get to you first. So you have to say, wait a minute, sweetie, and run over to the new people and give them some time. Yeah, that's true. And Pastor Hodge at our church, he stands in the back of the church and he greets people as they go out. And I don't always get the opportunity. So I know that's something that I would love to work on as a first lady. Sometimes we don't like to talk about what we have to work on. But just like you said, meeting everybody, talking to everybody, just saying hello, even during the week, texting everyone. I can't be so engulfed in ministry that I completely forget that people... or going through things. And as my husband is working, he's allowed me to work for the church full time. So I'm able to do the work that he's not able to do while he's at work. That's a privilege. And so I always have to make it in my mind, let me call so-and-so, or let me just check in on so-and-so. Instead of just working at the church all day, all night, I have to make sure that I'm present to people. It's very important. I love my people at Miracle Temple, so I never want them to feel like, oh, first lady didn't talk to me. You're not getting an offer and stop. Cut it out. I love it. Y'all got to post. Listen, Miracle Temple is out there. I need you to post in the comments. Hashtag for the people. OK, that was so good, but also so true. And personally, you also what you shared earlier about, you know, Jesus can sit at the table with Judas. And then I can also live on this person. Yeah, man. Yeah. I say this every time, we are at our time for tonight. I cannot believe it. It has flown by, but all of the nuggets that you all have shared, I hope that those that are watching, those that are watching the replay, really took something away from it. And so what I'm gonna ask that we do is uh first lady hodge I'll start with you if you could just give us maybe one uh one thing to take away from the conversation tonight for the first lady that's watching maybe the young woman who desires to be a first lady um you know the the elder's wife the deacon's wife who knows that their husband has a call of pastorship on their life if you could just share one takeaway from this conversation And then First Lady Michelle, we will end with you. Same question, one takeaway from the conversation. And then First Lady Michelle, I'm also going to ask if you would do us the honors of just praying tonight, specifically for other First Ladies as we end our conversation this evening. Once we are done, stick around. We've got some announcements coming up for the next conversations with Christian leaders that will be here right on Facebook Live and also on YouTube on April 3rd. But for now, let's go to First Lady Hodge. What is your takeaway from this evening? I would say my takeaway from this evening to any first lady or to a elder's wife that may want to be a first lady is to be true to yourself. Be true to yourself. Understand the calling that God has on your life and make sure you're ready for it. Make sure you're ready for it. Make sure you're prayed up. Make sure you understand your husband's vision. Make sure you understand the goods and the bads that you may take away from it. And most of all, make sure you're in the will of God, because if you're not in the will of God and if you're just trying to be a first lady just to be a first lady and you know that you're not ready, you're going to have difficulties. period, point blank. So be true to yourself. That's what I would say. And please, I'm sorry, I forgot. Please let us know how we can stay in touch with you. Oh, absolutely. So if you want to stay in touch with me or get in contact with me for engagements or what have you, you can go to mtkojicnorwalk.org. On the drop box, you will see Our First Lady. You can go ahead and click on that. And there is all of my information, my booking information as well. So how you can get in contact with me. Thank you so much, sis. First Lady Michelle, we are in your hands. I have to mess with Sister Hodge, you know, because you have the youth and then you have the old people here. So that's okay. But I would say the first thing is to ask yourself if you're really a servant. Assess yourself to see if you're a servant. And then once you take that internal assessment, plug into who you really are. And then that will start you down the road of answering some questions as to whether this is the role for you. But ask yourself, am I a servant or do I want to be served? There is a difference. I could shout. That's good. And then do that internal assessment, you know, and that will and then God will lead you as you do that, as you go do that introspection. God will lead you and he'll begin to show you things and say, well, maybe not yet or maybe in time, but that will be the most important thing. That's good. That is good. Thank you. Thank you. How can we stay in touch with you, First Lady Pullen? I'm very simple. I don't have a page. I don't have a booking slip. I told you the young, the old. I'm just Michelle Pullen at yahoo.com. I'll have to get in touch with you, Lady Hodge. You told me how to do all the other things. I'm very simple. I can't remember but too many things. It's Michelle with one L, M-I-C-H-E-L-E, Pullen, no S, P-U-L-L-E-N, at yahoo.com. I'm on Facebook too. Yes. Make sure please that y'all stay connected to these first ladies. As they mentioned earlier, they do have their own ministries and they do operate in their ministries. I won't even, I won't get into it, but. I promise you, if you are interested in praise and worship, speaking engagements, that sort of thing, please, please, please make sure that you connect with them. And just to, again, connect just for connection's sake. And it's okay. It's safe. It's safe. Absolutely. You know, it's hard because it can get lonely sometimes. Yes. because your circle is very, very small. I don't have any friends. I have a lot of people I know and that I'm close with, but I don't have friends. My kids are my circle and I have adult daughters. And so it works for me and I've learned to be very comfortable with my own company. And you know why? Because I don't have to worry about me telling nobody else what I said. Or misquoting you. You're not going to misquote yourself. Me isn't going to misquote me. I can go to sleep good at night. I don't have to worry about any of that. Oh, goodness. I love it. Listen, thank you so much for tuning in and thank you so much for watching. Before we end, I am going to ask First Lady Michelle, if you would pray us out with a special prayer for First Ladies. And then we'll throw on the outro clip as we get ready to head out of here for tonight. So First Lady Michelle. Before I pray, thank you, Dr. Aljo, for asking me to be a part of this tonight. It was so much fun. Initially, I thought it was going to be stressful, but this was so much fun. It was just a conversation. And we need more of these, but I thank you. I thank you for even considering me for being on it. And I appreciate the invite. So as we come together, Father, in the name of Jesus, Lord, we just come to say thank you. We thank you because you're a mighty God. Lord, we thank you because you understand the needs of the pastor's wives that are entrusted with the men who carry your gospel. Lord, we're asking right now that any pastor's wife that has listened on this broadcast, God, that she gets the nuggets or what she was in need of when she dialed onto this program or tonight, God. Give her what she was in need of. Give her the answers that she's been searching for. Let her have the connections that can help her move to where she wants to go in you, oh God. Let her know that she's not alone, oh God, and that things that she has gone through, that she isn't the only one. That she is not the only one that's had trials and tribulations and disappointments. That she's not the only one who has not met up to the expectation of the congregation. But God, you've called her for the position and the task that you put before her. And God, just give her the assurance that God, that you have ordained for her to be that pastor's wife. that you have given her everything she needs, that you've entrusted her with to take care of the man of God and the gospel that he carries. And Lord, we bind any spirit of doubt that she may have about who she is or what her task is. We bind that right now in the name of Jesus. she is strong she is a woman of god she does know the word of god she is a teacher and a mentor and an example father cover her even now for the enemy will buff at the helpmate just to distract him and we believe in you god to give her what she needs Make her bold in you, oh God. Give her what she needs. Give her that self-confidence, God, that's been wavering. Give it to her, oh God, in the name of Jesus. As she sleeps tonight, begin to speak to her spirit, oh God, to let her know she's not alone, that you are yet with her and you've called her for such a time as this. We're believing you for it, God. You didn't call us and create us for nothing. You didn't create us to be an ornament hanging on somebody's arm, but you gave us a work to do, oh God, to undergird and uphold the man of God who delivers your word and prepares souls for heaven. And Father, we thank you for the task. We thank you for choosing us, oh God, and for every pastor's wife and minister's wife and preacher's wife and prospective preacher's wife that's on this line. God, we thank you for it and give them that confirmation in their spirit on tonight. In Jesus' name we pray, amen. Amen. And thank y'all so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again for tuning in. Let's see. We had so many comments here. So thank y'all so much, very much for watching. And we're going to ask that we play the outro video as well. Hope to see you in April. And also make sure you mark your calendars for that Dig Deep Women of the Word happening October 4th and 5th in the city of Bridgeport, Connecticut. Until then, I will see y'all the next time. Take care, everybody.