What's Love Got to Do with It?

For the folks who desire to be married, it is important to remember marriage needs more than just love!  Join Dr. Jaria and her guests, Todd and Tody Williams, as we talk about the things church folks DON'T share with you about marriage.  Elder Todd and Evangelist Tody have been married for almost 35 years and they are ready to share what it takes to make a godly marriage last.

Transcript

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let's see good evening everybody happy happy happy wednesday happy black history month friends and welcome back to dig deep conversations with christian leaders I am your host dr julia c aljo if this is your first time tuning in make sure that you use the hashtag first time um if this is not your first time welcome back I don't know if you all were able to join us at the in-person conversations with christian leaders back in january battle of the sexes we had a absolutely phenomenal time it was incredible and also it was not posted on live it will not be on the podcast so the next one you have to make sure that you are there but tonight tonight tonight I have the absolute privilege the having my friends, my big sis, my big bro, but we are here together physically on location at Rehoboth Family Life Church of God in Christ where we are members. Shout out to Pastor Joel. Thank you so much for allowing us to use this space. But I'm really excited to have this couple here. Any time they talk about their marriage, they always say, you know, you've been married for 35 years. And my response is always, oh my gosh, that is a long time. But all jokes aside, I think there's a lot of wisdom that can be learned from those who have been married for a long time. And tonight's topic is, what's love got to do with it? And the thought process behind this topic is that, you know, I think a lot of times people put so much emphasis on love that we don't really talk about some of the challenging times in marriage. We don't really talk about the fact that love may or may not be the most important thing in a marriage. So if you are tuning in or if you are connected with me on Facebook, I posted about a week ago and I asked the marriage folks to tap in and I asked them, is love the most important thing to have in a marriage? And a resounding no was the response. There were a few people who said, yes, love is very, very important. Our guests tonight said no. So we're going to give them a chance to talk about that a little bit more. But I did want to read just one response that I found was incredibly helpful and incredibly wise. Let's see if I can pull up that comment here really quick for y'all. So it says no love isn't enough to sustain some of the ebbs and flows that life offers friendship and a willingness to love each version of each other has proven to be what sustains this commenter in our vows. We committed to love each version of each other that we would become that vow has truly kept us. And they ended the comment by saying marriage is a ministry of service. And I thought this quote, this comment really, captures the vision of tonight's conversation where we're talking about the ebbs and flows of marriage where love just isn't enough when we ask ourselves what does love got to do with it so tonight I'm so pleased to welcome my guest it is evangelist Tony Williams elder Todd Williams put your hands together in the comments some likes some hearts make sure that you share hey y'all are you guys excited excited is an understatement This is going to be so, so good. So what I'm going to ask my guests to do tonight is to just introduce themselves. Give me who you are. We know how long you've been married, 35 years. But what I would like to know is what do you think Elder Williams' favorite attribute of you, characteristic, body part, whatever. What do you think his favorite part of you is? And same question for you, okay? So what do you think her favorite part of you is and what do you think his favorite part of you is? Does that make sense? That's that okay? All right, so let's start with Evangelist Williams. Tell us who you are, where you reppin', where you comin' from, anything you want the people to know. Good evening, I'm Evangelist Tony Michelle Williams. What else you want me to know? like I am a preschool k um teacher at number I'm gonna tell y'all because I don't want y'all coming to my job um but in the city of new haven I'm also um I do a little behavioral tech work there too I help out with you know kids who are having rough tough days as well that's my profession um but in the church I am the music department minister of music for in the city of New Haven, where you'll be finding this minister in a great way under the leadership of myself in a few weeks. But I'm a mother of three, three beautiful children, two girls and a boy, which I'm extremely proud of. And of course, this is my man. Thank you for my man. And let's skip all this about me because really it's about us. We want to help somebody out tonight. Seriously, but Elder Williams, Pastor Williams. Can I see? That's my first time seeing that to the world. Is it? Yeah. Pastor. We're not going to do that because I have another name for that. Pastor Williams. Can I say my favorite part? Yeah. What do you think his favorite part? I know. You know? I know because he named it. Y'all ready? I'm still here for it. I'm still here for it. I love it. That's his favorite part. I love it. When he met me, he named it. And then we have it. If you know, you know. I mean, it is what it is. I don't think there's nothing wrong with that. They married, so you're good to go. Thank you for the introduction. Assistant Pastor Todd Williams. Congratulations, by the way. Congratulations, my bro. Introduce yourself to the people, please. Yes, I'm Elder Todd Williams. over family life with my pastor, the old Joe Micah David Pullen. My prelate is Bishop Augustus David Pullen, amen. And I'm just excited to be here on tonight with my sister. I'm really honored to be here. Never thought I'd be sitting in this chair, but my profession is I build probably the best helicopter in the world for Lockheed Martin's Corsair aircraft, a Black Hawk helicopter. there almost 20 years with god's will soon to be retired but I work diligently here in my ministry I work close with my pastor outside the church if you want to find me I'll probably be on the golf course love to play golf I love to spend time with my family very family oriented to the team though my kids are grown I still want them with me when I go on vacation most of the time I'm pretty simple, pretty simple. Love my wife, love her dearly. We've been doing this for a while. I'm hoping on tonight that I can, I'm not gonna spill no tea, but I wanna be truthful. Sure. Because not true, but I wanna help somebody. We have in almost 35 years, June 3rd this year, We have gone through a lot. We have. We've taken a lot of losses. We've gone through a lot. But God, but God, I can truly say that it was no matter what God. I'm not talking 10, 15, 20 years ago. I'm talking like two years ago. We both can testify. Wait, press pause. No, we're going to the favorite part. So what do you think Vangelis Williams' favorite part of you, attribute, characteristic of you is? Probably... I don't know. I don't know. Probably my smile. Probably my smile. Okay, okay. Probably my smile. She can look at me and know when I'm up to something. Mm-hmm, okay. It's hard for me to, you know, I'm the type of guy, like, I like to agitate her. Oh. Purposely. The truth is coming out. Okay. Purposely. I don't have a question. Purposely, and I like to catch her when she's, you know, she's, like, tired or something. Oh, yeah, I'm good. Okay. Okay. I see. Okay. I'm starting to understand. But she can look at me and, like, okay, what's she smiling about? she can read. Okay. I love that. Is that true? Is that true? Okay. Okay. Very good. Very good. Listen, I'm excited. We're going to jump right into these questions. So the very first question we're talking about, you know, you have brought up elder Williams about challenging seasons in a marriage in your marriage in particular. Um, what should married couples do if they find themselves in a season of not liking their spouse? I actually want to start with you at the Williams on that question. Um, for me and for us, and I can be truthful, she'll tell you, uh, just like two years ago, uh, we really had to really become friends over again, really get away from the, uh, the sexual emotion that we had to really become friends again. laugh again and go on dates and, and do things spontaneous. Yeah. Like when it first started, you know, we really had to really like, I had to become good friends again. Sure. Yeah. And it really, it really, for me, it helped. I don't know about her, but it really helped us to because We've gone through a lot. And I'll be honest with you, we've taken some losses. We've used a home, cars, been there, done that. And let me tell you something. You want a shaky marriage, have some bad finances. Finances and lack of communication can kill a marriage. we first started off, she was very good with communication. Kind of lost the way, you know, down the road, but I can remember when we first started and I was, you know, if I'm mad at you, I don't want to talk to you. She's like, nah, you ain't going to sleep until we talk for real. And you have to understand when we first met, I wasn't saved. I wasn't raised in the church. I was taught in the church. So church was new to me at 27, 28 years old. So our beginning is totally different from a lot of people. Not a lot of people, but those who are in the church. Ours is different. Ours is different. So I don't know if that answers your question. Yes, absolutely. One quick follow-up question for you before we go to Evangelist Williams with the same one. Can you just, for information's sake, so you all have been married for 35 years. When did you, at what ages were you all married? I was like in first grade. She's a few years younger than me. No. I was 22. And I was in first grade. She was 19, 18, 19. 18. 18. No, she was 18. Okay. I was just making 18. Okay. Really? Just. Oh, my God. Fresh out my mother's house. I was. Fresh out my mother's. Was I not fresh out my mother's house? Yeah. Amen. That's right. She had just left. Amen. We in church. She had just left. We in church, y'all. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. Well. How we met? I was stationed at Fort Bragg, and her brother was stationed there. She came to see her brother. She left Spain, came to see her brother on her way to the Air Force, correct? Her brother was one of my best friend's neighbor. And I remember him calling me. I was out all day long. Be nice. She had some jeans on that looked like they were painted on. I don't think they were painted. I just saw typing work. And she had on these. Oh, we're live. Oh, we're live. We're live. Go ahead. Skip that. Don't ask people what I... Come on. Go ahead. But when I met her, it really wasn't... You know, I'm like, oh, yeah, she's nice. You know, it was a little get-together and stuff. But, you know, at that time, I was all over the place, you know. Okay, yeah. But... After that night, I don't know, he wants to talk one day during the week. Then she came. You skipped a part. You said you want to tell the world. I have to make this very clear. I was not looking at you like that. Okay. Okay, let's just skip over this. It was when you seen me in my uniform. I think that's what really got captivated her. But she came to one of my basketball games. Remember, did you come to my basketball game? I did. Right. You know, she's seeing how athletic I was. Now, was your brother on the basketball team at this time? No. Or you just came? Oh, okay. Okay. Thisboard.com. That's what it was. Yeah. But she did. Like that, during that week. That was Saturday. I first met her there one day in that week. Saturday. Time. It was Saturday. That was the question. Can we get to the questions? Okay. Okay. You're going to have to help me now. I've been talking over 30 years ago. We have one hour. So y'all met, your brother was there, you all met, and it was kind of like, okay, you know, he's cool, he's cool, she's nice, he's nice. What took it like to that next level for y'all? Like, like I said, you were about 17, no, 18, 18, 19. 18, 19 over 22. So married for 35 years. So certainly very young. Like I can't imagine. my 18-year-old self being married at all. And not only just not being married, but also remaining married through the ups and downs. It's a whole adult. I've been married a whole adult. Yes. Absolutely. But 18-year-old is way different than Yeah, 55-year-old. Sure, yeah. And he's met all of those people along the way. But what took it to the next level, we just became friends, naturally. It was just a natural thing. Friends. I was in a room full of guys, but I only gravitated to him. Just talking, and then it just happened. It was just like, you're cool, I'm cool. Let's be cool together. Right, right, right. You know? And then being cool got us called up and I became perfect. And being cool was not cool because then he was in the service and they were going to ship him away. And he thought enough of me and our unborn child to say, you know what? In case something happens to me, I want to make sure you guys are good. The only way I can do that is give you my last name. That's what I say. We have it. I was engaged not even 24 hours. Wow. And then like the marriage happened. Marriage happened. Y'all moved. Yeah. Well, we got married literally, literally 23 days before my birthday. We got married on June 3rd. She had my daughter on my birthday, June 30th. Wow. One of my main concerns was I wanted her to have the best medical, you know, I had that much sense. I mean, I wasn't, like I said, I wouldn't say I was a good guy, you know, but I wouldn't say, but you know, I didn't know what was going to happen on the line, but I wanted her to have some good medical. I know, you know, she wasn't getting that from me. So I had to do what I had to do. And my mindset was, I don't know how long it's going to last, you know, but I got a daughter. We'll figure something out. Because growing up, my mindset was I never wanted kids. I was going to get married when I was about 40. 40? Really? That was my goal. But God had a totally different plan in my life. Wow. I love that. Love that. So then going back to the first question, just to give... evangelist a chance to answer what should couples do married couples do if they find themselves in a season of not liking their spouse all right again we're being honest just coming out of that season you have to really put everything on the line like what is really important here sure yeah what What am I missing? What did I lose? And can I find it again? Is it worth finding it again? Because there are reasons why people leave and I second the emotion. Yeah, you should have left a long time ago. But in this situation, we just, life and the things that happened along the way just tried to grow us separate. I didn't hate them. Right, right, right. You didn't hate me, did you? i just heavily disliked him like there were days I'm like yeah yeah but that of course the enemy loves loves to do what he does absolutely um but again we naturally became friends there was no nothing in between nothing happened we just was friends right so what happened and is it worth salvaging yeah if we destroy it all, what are the repercussions of us doing this? What's gonna happen to our family? Could care less what people thought, because a lot of people are together because of kids. They stay together because of assets. They stay together because of what people might think. That didn't matter. So we had to reassess what was important. how we started. Is it worth going back to? And we found our little things. Yeah. I don't want to start all over and try to find another best friend. It is, from what I hear, it's a hot mess in these streets. I don't, I just, I didn't want to do that. And I started finding reasons. Nothing bad about that. Until I found out. I'm not going to do that to you. But yeah, I just started finding things that found us. Time told me. Found us again. So when you find yourself one day not liking who you lay next to, try to figure out, well, what happened? Is it me? What about me changed? What changed? Yeah. And is it worth staying? Is it worth mixing? Is it worth the turnaround? And if it is, get busy. Get busy. And pray. Certainly seek God's face about it. And if he doesn't give you the green light to get about it, you better start finding a way or you're going to be miserable. Yeah, yeah. And we have to understand, what I had to understand, as we are getting older, our bodies change. And as our bodies change sometimes, our emotions change, and strong feelings, not feelings, I mean feelings being able to handle, critique, anything like that. But my main desire, what I didn't want to lose, and we'll talk about that. I didn't want to lose my commitment to my marriage. So, and she's right. We just had to figure out, you know, how did we get here? We know we had great time. We had many great years. And it's funny though, like, you know, 37 years. That's, I think, one of the things that I love about the two of you as a couple is that you all have a lot of fun together. Y'all are laughing constantly. Yes. And you're able to laugh at one another and not in a mean-spirited way, but also to laugh. I can see the two of you kind of looking at each other. Y'all start laughing about the same things. And it's like, that's really cool to see. um and I think I really appreciate the fact that you mentioned looking at yourself as well because I think a lot of times when things go wrong in our relationship it's so easy for us to be like will they change the name doing this and even that instead of really sort of reflecting on okay well what part did we change why why are we not finding this to be as fun anymore or wanting to connect anymore um so I do appreciate that you all shared that I said did you both uh did you both come up with a plan together to intentionally become friends again so can we talk maybe a little bit more about how the two of you decided we first of all we want to make this work we're committed to this marriage now what is sort of an action plan in getting back to becoming friends again I don't even believe that we even put a plan together it wasn't planned but we we did go for a ride a drive together one day you remember that and We just put it all out in the car, like, should I drop you off at the corner? Or do we go back to the house together? How is the house going to work? Are we going to tell the kids? Are we going to go home and tell the kids? It's just not any worse. You know, what are we going to do? And then Todd expressed, in my heart of hearts, I don't want it to be over. But I understand. If I have to, I'm prepared. And likewise. I'm like, yeah. Likewise. We'll just have to suck it up and go on. But the plan of action was if we're going to do this, we have to start being friends. We have to start learning to love each other like we used to. Learning to like each other. Learning to find the good things instead of okay it's so easy to point oh you keep leaving the toilet up you know yeah keep leaving your socks on it's so easy to find fault that's that's the easy and you could do that with a stranger yeah but it's harder to dig deep and find the good right and when you're willing to put in the work it's worth it yeah I love that it's worth it sometimes you gotta even recognize The enemy is real. He would love to break up and destroy my family. Our kids, they're grown, but it would devastate our kids if we woke up. It would devastate. I know for a fact. And not to say I would stay just because for the kids, absolutely not. Be real with you. You have to say absolutely not. still got my hairline I'm still on the market I'm thinking financially like uh how much this gonna cost me wait a minute you know yeah I ain't gonna lie now I started counting up the classes absolutely my mindset was I'd rather be miserable with some money in the bank you know but no it um But those things, that's real talk. One of the things that I talked about in a relationship early on was whether or not we would do a prenuptial agreement if we got married. And I'm a big proponent of doing that. If we do walk away, you're not walking away with my money. I'm walking away with my money. And that's that. And so I'm a big, big proponent of prenuptial agreements for that simple fact that I don't want to feel like I'm financially strapped to remain in the marriage. No, absolutely not. Because I know people who are like that and they are miserable. Miserable, no. I have co-workers who, I mean, I'm not rich, but I'm blessed. She gets half of my pension. She gets half of my 401k. Probably won't get a marital support. I mean, no. There's a songwriter many years ago We do have one other question in the comments here. It says, as the years passed, how did you stay consistent with the relationship? Which is a great question. I think that was close to one of the questions that I had asked was being married for over 30 years. How do you keep the relationship fresh and fun? Because as you mentioned, you know, after like you have children and you both work in the ministry, you have jobs outside of that. And you're also individuals. And so how do you keep the relationship fun? How do you remain consistent in our relationship? Let's start with you. Again, I mentioned before that 20-year-old Tony, different than 30-year-old Tony. So he had to be introduced to all these different versions of me. Yeah. And each person is very much different. Do you agree? Absolutely. Than the next, right? Not that we were outwardly doing crazy stuff, but family always, always, always, always been first in our lives. Even though we were saved young and had church, been in ministry all our adult years. But we developed that. Because some people are like, church, church, church, church, church. No, we made time for our kids outside of the doors to make sure they had normal lives as far as, you know, they did dances, did sports, did activities in school, out of school. We supported them. So we didn't let the focal point of what we are about, the inward of us, to overtake the outside. Therefore, we enjoyed life. We enjoyed the things outside the church. Yes, yes. You know, on a regular basis. It wasn't just scheduled like on July 5th every year. We're doing nothing. We're spontaneous. And we allow, you're not a part out. The saints love to say we're not in the world or not of the world. But we are very vigilant of where we are and what's out there and what can we enjoy without going overboard. And it keeps us alive. It keeps our family alive. We always look to go new places, experience things together. And that's it. Anything to add to that? Really? I mean, she pretty much hit it all. One thing I thought was within these last 10 years or so, I think allowing each other to He was a thing that helped. In the beginning of our marriage, Todd was gone a lot, like for years, months at a time. So I didn't really, I met him and then he disappeared. And we only communicated through letters, through like a fantasy world. He was like, ah, you really do. Tamia, you really do have a father. He's somewhere out there, right? So, stop it. Sorry. So, That in itself was huge. That was very difficult because when he came home, I had to deal with Todd that just came home from war, seeing and killing and all this type of stuff. I had to, what is wrong with you? Why can't the lights be off when we sleep? Different phases that I had to even go through because of what the military did to him. And then me being almost like a single parent, here's this man almost coming to spend a night with me and my kid. And he has his ways. And so I had to be introduced to that person, learn them, be accepting of it, as well as by the time he came back, now I'm in my 25s. And now I've been on my own. I don't need a maid. I've been doing this on my own. But he had to be introduced to that person. independent woman. Where do you come from? Because before I left you, you needed me for medical. So different phases cause for a different me, a different outlook. And with the help of God, I've just been able to just weave in and out of it. There were some times it's some cakes, a lot of cakes, a lot of cakes. But at the end of the day, when you look at the whole picture, when the blanket is done, you're like, wow, that was worth all the time it took to make it. And that's us. Anything to add to that? No. That was good. That was very good. That was very good. That was very good. So we do have another question here in the chat. And let's see. We got a lot of comments coming. So you guys are doing such a great job. Let's see. So our next question that we have in the chat says, how did you deal with your marriage when finances became difficult? And I know Elder Williams, you mentioned about communication. And I don't know if that's kind of where you want to start, but dealing with finances when it becomes difficult. Oh, my Lord. I need my shade. And I can't, you know, you want to point the finger, but, you know, I played a part. I had to end up doing counseling. For just you or for both of you? Both of us. Because what I wanted in a wife, I wanted a wife like my mother. I watched my mother sit down, watch her do her bills. That wasn't her forte. I'm just being real with you. I would come home, give her my check, and it wasn't her forte. It took some losses for... Oh, I thought we had 5,000. Oh, that was 500. Oh, okay. My bad. It took some major losses for me to... We've gone through a lot, but God has brought us to a place now where we're in such a great place financially, such a great place. My desire, you know, as you know, at 58, my desire is to please make her happy to the fullest for the rest of our life. And God has, you know, that was my prayer. And God has blessed me on a good track, on a good track. It took prayer because the fights, the arguments were real. They were real. They were intense. Couldn't sleep. Because when you have two people who are not in line, I'll tell any marriage couple, whoever's strong with the money, let them handle it. I'm being honest. Let them handle it. That's for any aspect of it. Money, if you're strong with money, that's you. If you're strong with discipline, that's me. If you're strong with this, that's your area. And it's okay. It's okay. Because what I tell a lot of women, the marriages I've done, I'll tell a lot of young couples, one of the first things I'll tell them is do y'all have an account together now, whatever I say? Who do you consider is be able to trust trust them that the decisions that they're going to make is for the household right because some people I talk to a lot of people about this finances is huge a lot of people are like I keep some like just in case this person you know try to decide you want to go out right but that's that's so okay so let's talk about that then because in my mind and I guess it's not it wouldn't be like a hidden account but in my mind it would be we have a joint account for some bills and I have my separate account he has his separate account so that way you know if I want to go to dsw and get a pair of shoes I don't want to mess up the you know we can't pay our rent because I got some new shoes right yeah so it's very interesting to hear that so would you all I think to answer the question about how do you sort of navigate financial difficulties one prayer we know that and I'm a big proponent of you know Jesus and therapy right so it sounds like two getting outside get outside help and I can add this don't get inside help don't yeah and I would say this don't get Help in the church. Yeah. Yeah. Cause they're going to give you biblical principles. Right. Right. Right. Right. My bank is called bank of America, not bank of church and God and Christ. It's not because normally if you go to a pastor, you're going to get biblical principles. care less not to say I'm not jesus I'm not putting you on pause but who could care less about what you believe sure yeah they want us to make the main thing the main thing we need to talk about y'all and y'all finances and y'all money and what's trying to tear y'all apart let's do that and this is a way and that that that was helpful so what was your question about accounts you know what no I don't even have the question about it because I just feel like it wouldn't be a secret it's not a secret but yeah but no not establish that yeah listen we have an account I have an account you have an account yeah at any time that you need to take something out of my account and beginning. We didn't establish rules of money. We just was willy nilly in it, fumbling and bubbling the whole time. I didn't know who the quarterback was, who was running. I didn't know none of that. We was just playing games the whole time, trying to figure it out and growing up together, making bad mistakes that we could avoid it. It's very difficult when the left hand don't know what the right hand's doing. Talk about it. It's very difficult. I mean, I would literally, you know, I have, you know, I'm not crazy. Oprah checks her account every day. I check my account first. And sometimes I used to cringe because I'm like, what did she do? What did I do? What did she do now? I would cringe. Shell! Shell! Out there, guys, when he's mad at me. He doesn't say all the letters in my name. It's just shell. When it says shell, I'm in trouble. Absolutely. However, how we started out 35 years ago is not where we are today. We used to hide money. We used to do all those games, play. Like from each other. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Secret accounts. We did that. I now know Todd hides money in the closet. He thinks it's in it, but I know that it's there. No secrets. No, there's no secrets. I try to keep a certain amount of cash in the house. And that makes sense. I have. But I know people who don't. Who have the secret stash, but they don't know. Who don't know the mad money that women are allotted to say that we have. They don't know. I don't know her money. No, you do know my money. It's in your account. Very simple. We cut all that nonsense out. It saves time if you tell the truth. Hey, listen, it is what it is. The reason why we have money in the house is for emergencies. Get it? Makes sense. But there was a time, I don't have any money in the house. I would have been on it. She's telling the truth, too. I appreciate it. I appreciate this. That's what it's all about tonight, because I'm certain that you're helping the people. I know in the comments, they are talking about you work as a team. You know, whatever yours is mine, whatever's mine is mine. That's funny, First Lady Lewis. Shout out to you watching it tonight. Absolutely. Yes, sis. Yes, sis. That is so true. Let me go back to... Let me go back to a little bit about you all's like story and everything, because I think this is, this is, I think the interesting part, because Elder Williams, you talked about how you all didn't grow up, you know, saved in the church, like you didn't meet. When you were, you know, we didn't say we didn't meet our aim. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. And so I'm so for me, knowing part of your story in that particular part of your story, knowing that evangelist Williams at the time you were saved or had gotten saved and elder Williams was just like, it ain't for me. Can you talk a little bit about, um, or just share some nuggets to nuggets with the wife who was waiting for her husband? to become saved? Girl, save yourself some time. Do not be out in these streets being unequally yoked. It's going to take the grace of God and God going before his wise men and everybody sitting back at that table that we all have. Our grandma got that picture. She's got to have that whole meeting all over again. Save yourself some time. Get you somebody who's like-minded spiritually, And on other levels that, that, that you, that have some interests and things like that, save yourself some headaches, some sleepless nights. Yeah. Some cop calling time. Like just stop, get yourself somebody. If you're gonna be saved, get you somebody who's safe. Right. Right. It's gonna be, if you wanna go that route, you wanna thug nasty. Listen, it's gonna be rough. It's gonna be rough because. I sang all over the world before being in this where I am today. I used to sing behind different artists that are huge artists. When I used to sing with John McKean and have gigs and stuff like that, Todd not being saved or even care about the church was like, you're not going anywhere tonight. What's your alliance saying? And he would cause all this confusion. because he didn't even understand ministry and what my likings were and anything like that. He didn't have a clue, right? So it was in church when I had to go back to church at five o'clock for YPWW and all these things. What are you leaving the house for? You just was at church for nine hours. And they would choose me in the church. It became fights after fights after fights. And then one day I flipped the script. Hey, you're not going to church with me? You're not going to have me no more. How about that? Right, right, right. So we're going to use these words. Unsober Todd went to church one day. And lo and behold, Jesus Christ Superstar was there. And he has never been the same since. Praise God. Praise God. and the slash and the tearing up of all my good friends and stuff. Could have been all saved. Thank God for his grace and mercy that he kept us together. But we couldn't afford a whole lot of stuff. And I'm saying this to people. Don't be out here in the streets. If you know you're going to be a church girl, get you a church boy or somebody who's on their way. I'm not saying you got a married preacher or somebody who's very established. But please, man, please, sir. Get you somebody who have Christ in their life. They don't have to be the same denomination, but get somebody, first of all, who Christ is the head of their life. It will save you so much time. That's good. Listen, it tells us in the Bible that we aren't to be unequally yoked. And we're talking about romantically here, right? And now sometimes we know that even if the two people that get married start off unsafe, but then one happens to become safe, it can be a challenge. It's going to be that struggle. Otherwise, can you just share from your perspective, having lived through that experience of, you know, as you said, you grew up on biblical principles, but you were certainly not, you know, student of the month. Me and my wife were totally opposite. You know, I started I think I started drinking at 15 years old, through high school, throwing clubs in high school. Our lives were totally different, day and night. Yeah. Matter of fact, first time she went to a club, I brought her to a club. And it wasn't good. She was not good. No, no, no, no, no, no. That shocked me too. I never liked the club. Really? No. you're missing out. I mean, you're not anymore, but, you know. Well, there's a reason, too. I always looked much, much younger than what I was. So that was always a challenge, getting in there. It's like, you have fake ID. No, I really this type of stuff and then I would even want more athletes right just to get the club and then when I get there I'm like you know it's the same people it's and when I tell y'all I am going to get back to your perspective um I was leaving from an event and we happened to be going through a place that I guess they had converted it to a club for the night And I'm waiting for my friends to come out so they could walk me to my car. And the DJ is playing a set of music. And I promise you, I knew the songs that were coming before they came because it was the same exact set that the DJs were playing back when I was in the club in 2008, 2007. And I was like... That's not, I could not do that anymore. And, you know, thank God for his grace and his mercy and salvation. But it just was like really and truly every single weekend. It was like you go to some of the same clubs and some of the same people hear some of the same music. I couldn't get in. Yeah. Probably if they would let me in, I'd probably have a different story. But that was a child's embarrassment. But even after I was able to go to certain lounges and stuff like that, it's like, I didn't drink. So that was a bummer. And I didn't like drinking Todd. So that was definitely no for me. I didn't like that. So those types of stuff is just what's like a big turn off for me. again unequally we didn't have that stuff in mind we weren't even drinkers together so I couldn't enjoy a drink with them because we're drinking together we're not smoking we're not just what right why so um back to your perspective on sort of living through that experience of um you know your your partner in marriage is now saved or is saved and you're just not ready to commit to god at that point Like, what can you just share some of that perspective with maybe some folks who are out there listening or watching that might be going through something similar? Yeah. When I decided to, when she finally got me to go, she had a way, when she cried, she could really get me. No matter what time I came in, no matter how tall I was. But it was a struggle. I fought. I might go, started going and eventually got a hold of me. I mean, it was amazing because I really didn't understand how rough and challenging it was on her. We had did a couples therapy with the VA, PTSD. That opened my eyes because she would get to share things like, wow, that was a piece of work. Never thought that. The many nights she stayed up waiting on me to come in. We partied all week. I would come in 4 in the morning. In 45 minutes, I got to leave and go to PT. And she'd be like, you're going to kill yourself. I'm young. I'm in the best shape of my life. The military. While I was stationed at Fort Bragg, it was like we work hard, we play hard. And they promoted drinking. I mean, so that was what we did. But yeah, the first few years, it was rough on my wife. And then all of a sudden, boom, I got to go. To me, it was big. I had to go. And I'm leaving them months at a time. I'm like, wow. At the time, I couldn't see because the devil had me consumed. But she was the one who led me to Christ. The church of God and Christ. My family is pretty much Baptist. I like when you say Baptist. Right. Y'all see that? God is good. Truly, truly God is good. Absolutely. Let's go to one final question here as we get ready to wrap up. I know. Listen, y'all. I'm not going to put my bro on blast, but he asked, okay, so we're about like 20 minutes. I said, 20 minutes? You don't watch the show. It's at least an hour. If I ask this question, it's going to be over an hour, but I feel like it's an important question. question that I have is how can couples live out Ephesians 5 chapter 5 verses 22 through 28 if you are not familiar with that certain passage of Scripture but I ask you to read it on your own but basically it's about why submitting yourselves to your husbands and then husbands are also to love their wives as Christ lived at church and so I really would love to hear from you all how can couples go about living that out because I think sometimes as a woman who previously would hear that scripture and cringe and be like, no, no, and no, don't want to, um, but have since grown and matured and understood, um, a lot better sort of the context of the scripture and also how to apply that. Um, I just am wanting to hear from you all for those that are out there that might be struggling with the whole Ephesians five and submitting to a husband and sort of husbands being, having to treat their wives like Christ or to love their wives like Christ loved the church. So, Evangelist Williams, let's start with you and wives submitting to your husbands. How do you live that out? How can couples live that out? Easy, ladies. Make them think they're the boss. Hey, buddy, you know you're the boss. And it works. It's easy. Yes, babe, that was your great idea. Knowing you had your great idea. No, sorry. Um, I believe that the word submissive, it's really not a hard one. And I know people, when they sing in their vows, they're like, can you take that out again? Use another word. It's not hard to submit yourself to somebody that you trust, that you feel protected. If you feel protected by them, it's easy. If you feel he deserves honor, it's easy. If they're doing their part. That word submit is not. bad word right yeah it goes to somebody who is who does it and stand in the shoes of somebody who's honorable and worthy of you submitting yourself going before you and covering your household and all those other little nuggets that come in we're having a good man it's easy but in the beginning 20 year old tony was like submit you're not my daddy right away good years you're not my father Don't tell me how to wear my hair. Don't tell me my pants are too tight. Don't tell me what to wear and what to take off and what to put. Please don't because I wasn't ready. And I was looking at things the wrong way too. But when you mature, you said that word when you are mature and you trust and know that the person that you're submitting yourself to, even deserves you to be under them, or it makes it easy when they are doing their job, when they're protecting you, when they're putting themselves in a place to be submissive. Some people don't even, you can't trust someone Well, you can't trust him with anything. So why would I want to trust my whole life, my whole life, my identity, Aaron, your last name out in the streets and you out here acting a fool. No, I can't. I won't. But when you find somebody who is worthy of all of that stuff, it's easy. It's not hard. Yeah. Your mind got to be right. You got to look at things the right way. And then, too, the other person has to be in those shoes. You have to be worthy of being submissive, too. Do your part or do my part. Right, right, right. So good. You love me? Like Christ loves the church. He takes care of the church. He's forgiving. He's forbearing. He's all those fruits. Bring me a fruit basket, too. And I can eat it. I'll eat it. I feel like, um, the part that you said about, you know, telling you what you can and cannot wear and, you know, Oh, absolutely. And I think, you know, even to the point where as you've grown and matured, um, and becoming more confident in speaking your mind to people even, and how that could potentially sort of make you all look better. People look at you differently, like navigating those moments of, you know, you're not my dad. Don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me what to wear. But as you said, it's, it's a mature, it's, it's making sure that your mind is right. Where it's like, I think that for me, there needs to be, or there is a fine line between wanting to protect and wanting to maintain the reputation of your wife versus wanting to control your wife. And I think kind of knowing the difference, right? Because I think sometimes you see in domestic violence situations where it starts off as, you know, you should, you should wear this instead of this, right. You know? And so to not say that that's what happened, but I think for myself, sometimes I'm like, Hmm, I need to make sure that my mind is right, but I also need to make sure that I'm not falling into anything that I would not want to be in. Exactly. Something simple as, when we first got together, he had this thing about redheads. I never had red hair. Or streaks and things like that, right? And he would always overly suggest it. And I'm like, why? This dude is so, this is red-haired stuff, right? Go ahead. Finish. Why did I do that? Because all you girls had red hair. It must have been a thing for him. Oh, God. That was the thing. You had girls with red hair. Okay. And if you didn't have it, yeah. So submissive Tony did it. Yeah. My hair broke off because of all the dyes and stuff like that, right? So I'm like, I'll never do that again. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't even like this type of stuff. But want to be submissive, I did it. But I didn't even like it. And even after that, why don't you make your hair red? Because I don't like red hair. And because you like girls with red hair. And I'm not them. Don't start comparing me to Susie Q over here. a thing like what is it and just imagine if I just it would have been red hair today then I don't know what else she was into but like if we're not you know I'm not doing it but those things are subtle but yeah you know because I loved him enough right trusted him enough right right right I was out here looking like ronald mcdonald But I did it right now. But yeah, you know, that wasn't me being someone. I don't want to say worth submitting to, but someone where submitting to is easy. Right. Right. Yeah. It's easy. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church. That Ephesians 5, you really, as a young couple, you really have to, if you're not mature, you've got to grow into that. You have to grow into that. And we did. When I first heard it, I remember I wasn't ready for church now. When I first heard it, I was like, oh boy. In fact, remember when we got married, I told you like 24 hours later, when they said those vows, we both burst out laughing. Because I gave him this face. We laughed during the vows. And the lady that was married, the justice of the peace was so mad at us. She's like, this is not funny. This is serious. This is a commitment to God. But we're laughing at the word submit. Because I was like, pfft. When she said that, I said, pfft. And he started laughing. But even then, you know, I wasn't serious about my files because I was like, I'm not submitting to you. Are you crazy? Let's have everybody do this so we can get this medical. But you really have to grow into that. The Bible talks about how when we leave our parents, we come together. We come together as one. So the submissive part is more of... respecting and working together. Now, when it comes to love your wives as Christ, that thing, that really hit me when I really got an understanding of that. I was like, wow, that's a big responsibility when you think about how much Christ loved. He died for the church. Think about it. So for the husband, that's a great responsibility. My job is to love her I know I'm not always going to get it right. I know I'm always going to get it perfect, but that's serious. And when you don't, I'm falling short. I'm not fulfilling what God has called me to do as a husband. And I haven't always gotten it right, but that's, in that whole text, that right there, to me, that is the focal point. The submissive part, that's Same thing with me. There's things that, oh, babe, I want you to wear your hair this way. Like, oh, man, really? Well, I want you to wear your, you know. And it's time that she, I want you to wear this. I didn't want to wear it. But I did it because, you know. And I trust my wife. Right, right, right. I trust her that she ain't going to have me out looking like Bozo the Clown. And don't. Because let me tell y'all, if y'all come to church, El Tabi's stepping it up. Putting us all in a shack. I'll be like, where are you going? Where are you going? Trying to figure it out. She has a good eye for what I like. And she'll tell me something. I'm like, nah, babe, nah. I'm pretty basic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she'll try to stretch me. And I'll be like, babe, nah, trust me, trust me. And every time, right on point, every time. 35 years, I should know a little something. Just a little. My whole life. tiny bit y'all this has been so I know y'all can't believe the hours I can't believe so much to say I know you can't okay so is there is anything that you feel like if I leave this moment and do not share this it will be a missed opportunity is there anything that you feel like this the people absolutely have to hear this yeah leave other people out of your marriage if they're not for if they're not for your marriage they're not for your marriage period if y'all get that if they're not when you go to a person for advice and the things that they're telling you it's the opposite of staying together they're not for your marriage they should be coming to you about ways to for you to stay versus wage you should leave if you're not being abused or that like that right leave them out of your marriage get counsel from people who've done it already yeah don't get counseling from people who ain't never been married trying to get married you just don't go to you know yeah just like when you're in the hospital and those those students come to try to get kind of a little nervous. Like y'all have, y'all ask questions like, how much do you know about this? Before you start taking counsel from people, be careful. Literally, like the Bible said, you leave your parents and you cleave to one another. If you have to get advice, get outside advice, please, please, man, please, sir, do it. And it's okay. And it's okay to go when you're not having problems. Right, right, right, right, right. See, how can I step this up? Right. Yep. You know? Yeah. So that's my little spell. Keep people out your house. Keep your marriage. Keep your marriage. And the marriage business to yourselves. Yeah. And if you need to, get professional help. Or from other married couples or somebody. Yeah, don't be on your marriage council from somebody who wants your man or wants your wife. Don't do it. Don't do that. No, no, no. For meeting myself, I'm going to go back to a question that you presented on Facebook. Okay. Yes. About marriage and love. Yes. And I read so many different comments. Yes. And I said, absolutely not. You did. So for those that don't know, aren't connected to me on Facebook, the question was, is love the most important part of a marriage? And your response is absolutely not. Reason being, and this is not my theology, but I learned this from, I was newly saved. I learned this from, I was at the time going to Smith Temple Church of God in Christ in Fayetteville, North Carolina. And the late Dr. Otis Lockett out of Greensboro, he's coming to do a revival. And I remember one night he asked the whole church, everyone who believes that marriage is based on love, raise your hand. I said, oh, I got this one. Everybody's hand went up. And he said, wow, people didn't say, oh, it's based on love. And I heard a lot of comments about, you know, respect and communication and all this stuff. And he was like, no. He said, because God, in the beginning, God said, he covered all. God said, love what? Your neighbor as what? He said, so God already had commanded us to love one another. Dr. Jeria, that thing stuck with me to this day. I can love her, but when things get hot, I can bounce. There are many people who, I know some friends of mine, like, man, yo, man, I'm out, man. Man, I love her, man. I love her with all my heart, man, but nah, I can't deal with that. And let me tell you something, to young couples who are engaged, You gotta make sure that you are committed for this hell or high water, as they would say. I'm being honest with you. Think about the worst times ever. What could be the worst thing that could happen? Think about all those things before you say, I do. What is a deal breaker? Talk about the deal breakers. Because love covers all the communication, all that respect. Love covers all that. are you gonna be committed when things go disarray? Are you gonna be committed when you ain't got no money, somebody's sick, whatever the circumstance. It's the commitment that's gonna keep you together. And that's what really has kept us. We know we're committed to this. And we don't, like I said, we don't bend through. Off the house. Because he'll honor that. He'll honor that, yeah, we made some mistakes, but you know, OK, we. Another chance. Yeah. And that's across the board. And that's why we're still together. Because God continues to give us new chances, another chance. Absolutely. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Commitment is so critical. Yeah. It's so critical. That was one of the comments I think somebody mentioned is, like, love is, you wake up in the morning, you decide, I'm going to love this person today. I'm going to be committed to this person today. Even if, you know, you on my nerves, you aggravate me, you keep leaving the toilet seat up. Does that ever stop by the way? Yes. Oh, it does. A lot of things change. Even if you, I don't want to say retrain, but you could train a person to love you. Think about a pet. Yeah. Pets don't really know you. They're not born of you, but you could train them to like you and love you. Absolutely. There's things he knows that just gets on my nerves. If he loves me enough, he's going to fix it. Likewise. Right, right, right. We both have had moments. We both have had moments. And I ain't talking about 10 years ago where we wanted to end it. But at the end of the day, we're like, nah, I'm committed to this. What we're going through is, nah, this, what we're going through, it ain't too hard for God to handle. Right, right, right. And I had to literally shut out Everything and everybody, even straight to heaven. Like, God, here we are. Here I am. Here's what the Williams' look like right now. Right, right, right. Right, right. I've taken it as far as I could take it. What you're going to do, right? Start talking. I need to hear you. Start showing up. Start talking. Any day now. Change my heart. Change, change. Yeah. Changed his heart. And he did it. Marriage is work. It is. It's work. It's hard work. You clock in. It's hard work. You do not clock out, ladies and gentlemen. You don't clock out. You don't clock out. And if you put God first, see the advantage with those who are saved, you already got God. At the beginning with us, I wasn't thinking about God. She was one that was praying. But when it all came together, we always got through it. We always got through it. To this day, we just committed. This is it. This is it. Till death do us part. I love it. Thank y'all so much. This has been so great. This has been amazing, amazing. So before we end, I'll just ask if Assistant Pastor Todd Williams We'll just say a prayer. And if you would please specifically focus on those who are married. In fact, if you both could focus on, if we could start with you, Vangelis Williams, if you could focus on just wives in a marriage, and then with you, Assistant Pastor Todd, focusing on husbands in a marriage, and then just marriages in general, people that desire to be married. The topic for tonight is what's love got to do with it. And love, I think, is a very beautiful thing. Marriage is a very beautiful thing. But in order to make a marriage work and in order to sustain a marriage, like we've heard tonight for over 35 years, it takes more than just love. Right. It's a commitment to one another and most importantly, a commitment to God. So if you do not have a relationship with God, if you are listening, please, I would encourage you to seriously, seriously start. getting into that relationship with God first. Don't even worry about dating and relationships and marriage with other people and all this other stuff. Get into your relationship with God first and then everything else will come after. Yes, you will absolutely need him. But if we could start, your man just learns with you with the praying for focusing on wives in a marriage, then assistant pastor Todd. And then after this, we have some quick announcements and ways that you can connect with us. So stay tuned after Pastor Todd ends the prayer. Evangelist Williams. Father God, in the name of Jesus, we put before you every wife, every sister that's considering being a wife before you right now in the name of Jesus. Asking that God, wherever they are in their minds, in their lives, in their bodies of God, those who are preparing for marriage, that you would touch them. Even now in the name of Jesus. Oh God, bring those things that are dormant that would make them a better wife. Bring it to fruition for them in the name of Jesus. Those who are contemplating marriage, oh God, set them up. In a godly way. Like you did the church oh God. Give them headships. Give them good people before them. Connect them with people who are able to guide them. In the right way. Give them great counsel. Even now in the name of Jesus. Let doors open up for them right now. As we're speaking oh God. We ask that you touch those who even. Wives who have found themselves. In places that I were. In times that they wanted to give up. And throw in the towel oh God. That you would touch their minds. And that's something that I've said on tonight. Hurt them, oh God, and let them not only lead to what I said, but lead to your word where your word says that love is patient, love is kind, love is forbearing, and all those things that love encompasses in your word as God acts as you open their eyes to it even now in the name of Jesus. We know that there's nothing too hard for you. We're sitting here on tonight because nothing is too hard for you. And we give it all in your hands. Every marriage, every woman, every wife, every sister, everyone that is even engaged, oh God, we bring them before you in the name of Jesus, God, that you would just open their minds and their eyes to what really is a good wife, oh God. Creating them even now, a heart of a wife, a heart of a mother, a heart of a good sister, that some man that might find them in the name of Jesus and find them being a saved woman, a woman worthy to be called a wife in the name of Jesus. I pray. Amen. Father, we thank you. We praise you on tonight for this opportunity, Lord, to come and share God of our lives, our marriage. I'm praying even now, God, that you touch the men, touch those who are married, touch those who are seeking to get married, God. Help them to understand, God, the place that you put the man, God, as the first partaker, Lord. Help us, Lord, the brethren, to be able to stand firm, God, on your principles, Lord, of what it is to be a husband, God, what it is to be the first partaker, Lord. We're praying, oh God, strength for our brethren, Lord, for the challenges and the pressures of being a husband, of being a father, Lord. God, we pray in the name of Jesus, God, that you continue to stir them up, God, stir up their spirits, God. Don't let them lose hope, God, in what it is to be a father and to be a husband, God. For it is beautiful, it's wonderful, God, as we seek you first, God. You said you would give us all those things, Lord God, that we desire, God. And I'm praying right now, God, for that marriage, Lord. That marriage that may be struggling right now. It may be dealing with financial issues, Lord. It may be dealing with, God, with sexual issues, God. Whatever the circumstance, God. God, we know that you're able to do anything but fail, God. We're praying for restoring, God. We're praying, God, for strengthening and mending, God. Oh, Lord, feelings have been hurt, God. Fingers have been pointed, God. And we're believing right now, God, that you will give them a spirit, Lord, of forgiveness, God. Help them to forgive one another, Lord. Help them to understand, God, that you were clear in your word, that what you have put together, you said, let no man put asunder, God. We bind Satan right now in the name of Jesus. For we know that he comes, none other but this day. families and our marriages. God, we claim victory right now over the enemy. In the name of Jesus, strengthen that marriage, God. That man who was determined to go one way, God, turn him back around, God. Help him to be committed, God, to what you call him to be, God. In the name of Jesus. Put a commitment in their spirit, God. Put a commitment in their spirit to understand that there's nothing that they cannot work through, God. There's nothing, God, that you can't help in the name of Jesus. We give you glory on tonight, God. We thank you for this gracious host, God. Oh, God, who is really, Lord, doing a great work for the kingdom, God. As I believe on tonight that some marriage has been blessed, some marriage has been restored, even on tonight, God, in the name of Jesus. God, it's much needed for many marriages are being torn apart every day. And somebody on tonight, God, has grasped hold on tonight, God, of your word, of the encouraging information that was given on tonight, even in our marriage. That if you commit to one another, if you commit, oh, my God, to the word of God. wonderful. He's marvelous. He's a holy God. He's righteous. He's just. And he wants his people to be blessed. We praise you and we thank you for all that you've done and all that you're doing. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank y'all so much for tuning in. Thank you for my guests. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This was fantastic. Listen, y'all do not want to miss the next episode. It is coming out March 13th. Y'all ask for it. I'm going to give it to you. It's so you want to be a first lady part two. Okay. Part two. So we're going to show a little bit of clips, a little bit of announcements here. So just tune in for a hot second, just to see different ways that you can connect with us. at Jerusalem Ministries and all things dig deep. I will see you on the journey to a deeper relationship with God and see you in March. Take care.